tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5753436815554769132.post7077076242829852145..comments2024-03-12T09:18:33.410+00:00Comments on Four Dollars, Almost Five: Uncertainty About Free Willrhiggshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/16246371823456833408noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5753436815554769132.post-75051505014419452582009-07-01T11:13:32.037+01:002009-07-01T11:13:32.037+01:00Hi Capdancer,
Welcome and thanks for the comment....Hi Capdancer,<br /><br />Welcome and thanks for the comment.<br /><br />You said: "<i>if the random noise of the brain is the source of 'free will', then why not the soul, too, and a means to prove the existence of God...or at least justify belief in the same.</i>"<br /><br />For me, it depends how you define the 'soul'. <br /><br />If you mean it to be some sort of state of consciousness and self-awarness that humans have, then I would think it's plausible that both free will and the soul are somewhat connected and may <b>have originally evolved</b> from random noise in the brain. Note that I am not saying they are completely contolled by random noise, but this may have been their origin.<br /><br />However, if you define the 'soul' as being some sort of transcendant entity within each of us that will live forever, and I suspect you do given your comment about God, then I will have to disagree. I just don't believe in transcendant entities like souls or Gods. Also, even if reasonable evidence of a soul ever emerged, it wouldn't prove the existence of God, just the existence of souls (although I agree it would lend some credence to belief in God).<br /><br /><br />"<i>I'm not inclined to believe in free will; this seems like an attempt to define 'freedom' as mere randomness - stochastic behaviour.</i>"<br /><br />Do you not believe in the randomness theory of free will being proposed here, or do you just not believe in free will at all? I mean, did you decide to repsond to this article or was it pre-determined?<br /><br /><br />"<i>What it comes down to for me is the 'how', which is ultimately as series of spatio-temporally connected 'whats': if the random firings of neurons in the brain *are* responsible for free will, what is the mechanism connecting the two?</i>"<br /><br />Good question. I have no idea but I don't think it's too big a leap to think of random firing of neurons causing bigger whole body effects. It's easier to think of it in terms of a bacterium though. According to the article, if a bacterium is in a stimulus-free environment it will still move around. If it acts purely on 'instinct', i.e. response to stimulus, then it shouldn't move at all. But it does! So there <i>must</i> be some other mechanism at work, either intelligence or randomness. I think we can rule out intelligence, so randomness must somehow control movement in this scenario. (Please note I do not claim to be an expert so this is complete speculation - I will happily be corrected)<br /><br /><br />"<i>An incidentally observed phenomenon may be sufficient basis for a scientific theory, but does not justify its acceptance.</i>"<br /><br />Agreed<br /><br /><br />"<i>Also, I question whether 'free will' is, by that definition, of any value; character is determined by experience + genetics, and has a major role in determination of behaviour...which is the subject about which we are concerned, is it not?</i>"<br /><br />Interesting point. I would tentatively agree that the term 'free will' may be redundant. My own non-expert opinion is that perhaps free will may have originated from randomness, but in humans free will is somewhat under control and is a trade off between intelligence and instinct.<br /><br /><br />Very interesting topic all the same. Thanks for your input!rhiggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16246371823456833408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5753436815554769132.post-75118176768735920122009-07-01T07:59:26.532+01:002009-07-01T07:59:26.532+01:00Nice review of the article. Raised a question in m...Nice review of the article. Raised a question in my mind (probably not freely): if the random noise of the brain is the source of 'free will', then why not the soul, too, and a means to prove the existence of God...or at least justify belief in the same. I'm not inclined to believe in free will; this seems like an attempt to define 'freedom' as mere randomness - stochastic behaviour. What it comes down to for me is the 'how', which is ultimately as series of spatio-temporally connected 'whats': if the random firings of neurons in the brain *are* responsible for free will, what is the mechanism connecting the two? An incidentally observed phenomenon may be sufficient basis for a scientific theory, but does not justify its acceptance. Also, I question whether 'free will' is, by that definition, of any value; character is determined by experience + genetics, and has a major role in determination of behaviour...which is the subject about which we are concerned, is it not?<br /><br />It is good to know that scientific mavericks are still at large, though, from the other comments - I have a theory, that collaborate & publish or die may be true, but only because the people at the top don't want to lose their jobs, so they have re-defined successful scientists as being like them - highly collaborative and published - while the reason for their success (longevity) might be more about their early seminal contributions, that made them desirable as collaborators or highly cited. More on that anon...capdancerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04994096565672372735noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5753436815554769132.post-83217356951844104962009-06-26T16:32:55.454+01:002009-06-26T16:32:55.454+01:00Cool. I'm quite interested in Drosophila becau...Cool. I'm quite interested in Drosophila because of their Toll receptors. They are involved in development in fruit flies (maybe bees too?) but their vertebrate homologs, the Toll-like receptors, are essential in pathogen recognition and innate immunity. I've been working on the TLRs for the past 5-6 years now...<br /><br />And yes it's probably jealousy. The more senior some people get, the more childish they become...rhiggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16246371823456833408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5753436815554769132.post-20738981058327783922009-06-26T16:13:45.812+01:002009-06-26T16:13:45.812+01:00I know nothing about him other than what I read to...<b><br />I know nothing about him other than what I read to write this article. His work sounds very interesting. Are you involved in anything similar</b>?<br /><br />I work with bee brains at the moment. Heisenberg and my boss are quite good friends, we collaborate a lot. <br /><br /><b>Why does he divide opinion so much? Is he living in the shadow of his father</b>?<br /><br />I've never seen the shadow of his father at the university ;)<br />Truth is, many biologists know so little about physics that Werner Heisenberg is just a famous name. And actually his son deserves a Noble prize of his own, but insects are a little underrepresented among the Noble prize laureates...<br /><br />I think he devides opinions so much because he's opinionated and sometimes a little bit too smart for his own good. He sees the big picture. And some people seem to think you shouldn't do that too much when you only work with fruit flies. <br /><br />I don't really understand it but I once almost started a fist fight when I mentioned his name in a group of university professors.<br /><br />Jealosy?Anna Sethehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07863425770114336085noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5753436815554769132.post-47429535481935446352009-06-26T15:01:42.299+01:002009-06-26T15:01:42.299+01:00No way!
That's so cool...!
I know nothing ab...No way!<br /><br />That's so cool...!<br /><br />I know nothing about him other than what I read to write this article. His work sounds very interesting. Are you involved in anything similar?<br /><br />Why does he divide opinion so much? Is he living in the shadow of his father?rhiggshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16246371823456833408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5753436815554769132.post-45393273916782799582009-06-26T13:50:51.439+01:002009-06-26T13:50:51.439+01:00I know Martin Heisenberg :D
I got my degree in ne...I know Martin Heisenberg :D<br /><br />I got my degree in neurobiology at the University of Würzburg. <br /><br />He's absolutely fascinating (people tend to either love or hate him, I'm definitely one of the former).<br /><br />And while I was there he had a tiny little VW. I really like it when the big guys look like normal people ;)Anna Sethehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07863425770114336085noreply@blogger.com